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Why Support the AYF and the State bodies.

Postby swearly on Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:54 pm

Sorry to bring up old news but am bored waiting for parents ar a parent teacher night. Has anyone seen the AYF Youth Development Program. The sabres ablong with a large number of other classes are not included and it looks like our young sailors can expect no support even though a very large number of representatives (particularly in Victoria) at olympic, world and wourld youth level have come from sabres. They obviously spent a lot of thought on the program as they expect their tornado sailors to come from 470s. Their is no real deveopment path for cat sailors. Look at the pathways and then wonder about the combined inteligence of those who drew up this marvelous plan.

Stephen Early
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Postby GuestMember on Mon May 22, 2006 2:55 pm

Its an interesting question sometimes when you scratch the surface of our governing bodies.

Its funny that you look at why these organisations exist such as the VYC.

One of their main supposed missions is to "Promote Sailing and Encourage Participation."

Yet on the other hand they then actively discourage the Sabre class, one of the cheapest most accessabler classes for the average joe to have a sail in, particularly at a junior level.

We do not participate in Sail Melbourne (not invited) nor are our juniors allowed to come to vyc junior training unless they have lasers.

Many clubs around the bay find kids join sailing minnows , sabots and now optimists in large numbers.

Yet when the kids turn to mid teens they encourgaed by the VYC to buy a laser, otherwise they get no training or encouragement. As a result they leave their home club and sail at another club which has a large laser fleet. Their success ( or welcome) at the new club will in turn affect their continuation in the sport.

This is counterproductive to a home club developing its numbers and staying healthy. This is not just a class issue it is also one for the clubs to consider.

Sailing numbers are declining as a sport. This sort of policy is not helpful to keeping our sport going. Sailing is a sport the whole family can particpate in on the one day.

Last time I checked not every one wants to be an olympic champion. Kids used to sail for the enjoyment, new skill, increased social interaction and fun. If your having fun it doesn't matter what boat your in.

Im not against training kids to be better sailors, however I am against exclusion due to the right equipment.

Its impossible for a family with limited money to build a laser cheaply in the back shed to help their kids go sailing. At least in the sabre class they have this option.

I know these issues have been raised before by many in the Sabre community such as Steve but nothing really seems to change. Its a shame because it doesn't just hurt our class it hurts the sailing community in general.

I'm sure many young sailors leave sailing because the laser (and its olympic win at all costs image ) is not to their liking. Given their are plenty of other sports they can play why stick with sailing.

I think it is about time we put the fun back into sailing not just trying to raise olympic champions. Its should be about numbers to keep our sport growing and thriving. Olympic champions will always be their regardless of boat type.
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Postby GuestMember on Tue May 23, 2006 9:59 pm

Theres not enough encouragement for sabre kids to sail there boats more anyway at out club there are around 6 kids that have sabres while there are 3 kids that sail lasers, only 2-3 kids sail there sabres often while 2 of the 3 lasers sail all the time, while the other one barely turns up as he learnt to sail in a laser and so really didnt learn how to sail, those two other kids that sail lasers have moved through the sabres before getting the lasers, using the sabres as a stepping stone, or to bridge the gap, without the sabre those kids would probably still be struggling tacking and gybing. any way i think that perhaps there could be something like those training weekends happening more regularily, like 3-4 times a year if possible, at different yacht clubs around the place. this may encourage the kids to sail a lot more and offer the rest of the fleet a lot more competition
with a lot of good kids sailing them it might force people to notice the class
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Postby peter reid on Tue May 23, 2006 10:37 pm

hear hear well said!!!!!!!!!!
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training sessions

Postby Wild One on Wed May 24, 2006 9:52 am

hi all,

at the gippsland lakes yacht club we have about 2-3 kids sailing sabres nearly all the time. then we get about 2 kids sailing sabres in our sailing school & both of them come out & race with us. but sabres are the only off the beach monohull sailing at our club.

yeah if we could get the training weekends some where east of melbourne then there would be some of us coming because we are the biggest fleet racing east of melburne so if it could be a bit closer then some of us would come. because we have been talking about the training weekends & how it could help our fleet sailing & getting the kids on the pace but we never acted on it because it was in melbourne.
Good sailing to all,
Ben
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Postby swearly on Thu May 25, 2006 3:09 pm

I have no wish to flame other classes for junior sailing and I am not anti laser. Both my son and daughter have sailed lasers and Maree also sailed europes. However when they were going through the junior program support was given to people sailing othe than selected classes and the criteria was how good a sailor you were and not what type of boat you sailed on. I believe the state and national body should be supporting all sailors and our elite no matter what class they sail. My major concern is not the drop of numbers of juniors sailing sabres but the number of juniors sailing. Again going back a few years it was very difficult to make it to Mordialloc and now most of those who wish to go go as the number after spots was much larger. The regattas were huge unlike currently where the numbers are almost an embarrisment. The good sailors will as my kids did - change to international and olympic classes when they are ready. Almost all our top sailors came through classes other than the path recommended. Both Crystal Weir and Sarah Blanck sailed sabres. Lets hope that both state and national bodies will stop chasing credit for events such as word youth chapionships and worry more about encouraging more juniors to sail and race regardless of the class they sail.

Stephen Early
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Postby Richard Jackson 1660 on Mon May 29, 2006 10:32 pm

I totally agree Steve. I grew up with your kids sailing Sabre's and only borrowed Lasers when I had too. I did one international event (in the Laser) at BYS but have no time for that sort of dedication. I have always prefered a Sabre due to my body weight, or lack of it and found it hard too want to step up. There is a transition period where Sabre sailors are basically ignored if we didn't want too sail Lasers, etc. What can we do about it? Without people of your own age, the big Clubs (ie. Sandringham YC) & the AYF/VYC not supporting us, wheres the fun? I do still have my fifth Sabre, 1660 in a garage and look forward too pulling her out for the second time ever (work in progress). The Nats @ Gippsland look good!
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Postby Richard Jackson 1660 on Tue May 30, 2006 12:36 am

It might be helpful if this forum had pricing for memberships of all the different clubs, seeing as we have to pay the AYF it's annual thing, (included in club membership) too race in States/Nationals. I think clubs could attract young/ageing sailor's if we could budget for them some what & point them in the right/smartest direction (price wise). Seeing as though the AYF/VYC (or whatever they call themselves now) don't do much for us. I don't want too pay five or six hundred a year (MMYC) for something which I'll only use a bit. We should advertise this forum at all Clubs'. In a few years who knows how it will help/go. We might/should get a basic/standard Sabre membership price at all clubs which would cover costs and attract growth(?).

PS really miss sailing with you all!

PPS why do the VYC keep builting and training with Pacers?

PPS Why does Sandringham YC hate Sabres?
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Postby peter reid on Tue May 30, 2006 10:14 pm

i think most sabre sailors are of the opinion that the state and national authorities sees "sabre sailors" as a cash cow that they can rip off to fund their pie in the sky projects and boosting their egos and have not the slightest interest in anything other than ripping off the average sabre sailor-the sooner we piss them off and do our own thing the better= hey
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Postby peter reid on Tue May 30, 2006 10:36 pm

it seems to me that the vyc coaches who coach juniors in sabots and minnows and are paid from levies on sabre sailors spend most of their time convincing the juniors that the sabre is a dead end boat whereas they boost the laser as the gateway to the olympics for those who are really dedicated
iT IS total gobldygump because the majority will be so focused on their final two or three years at school and getting into the best tertiary institution that they have a better chance of winning the lottery than making the olympics
the fact is that the sabre is reallly an excellent class fto combine with a tertiary course providing some real fun and excitement as a break from the books that does not require the dedication and physical strength of the laser while having all the tactical and strategic aspects
in truth for the varst majority of people the sabre is a far superior sailboat to the laser in every way
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Postby Richard Jackson 1660 on Wed May 31, 2006 1:04 am

Having had another night to think about it, Sabres' are not & have not been represented (much) at any of Victoria's three big clubs’, RBYC, RMYS & as I mentioned SYC. This is where most of the AYF/VYC concentration goes as they know they can get the support back. I'm not knocking any of the smaller or otherwise not mentioned clubs as this is where Sabres have grown up, but it is a fact of the problem I think. I have worked in the BIA industry for about 5 years full time and many other years part time and realize that the big fish are dominate. Should we look, as a Class, at holding the occasional race/training day at these venues just too open their eyes? These Clubs have the youth which the VYC/AYF is now chasing (as they more than likely the money to buy into it). I don't know, I'm still just passionate about Sabres' and want too help.
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ayf/vyc

Postby Wild One on Wed May 31, 2006 9:36 am

hi all,

i know a coach that coach's the vyc teams & she is always pushing for kids to sail sabres but they can't if they want to be in the vyc team because the vyc won't let them sail a sabre it has to be a laser 4.7. that has taken over the place of the sabre when it was still a vyc team boat. my friend thinks the sabre is a much better boat then the laser 4.7 for vyc team boats.

but the vyc don't have the same opinion as she does
Good sailing to all,
Ben
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Postby Richard Jackson 1660 on Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:25 am

Well back in the good old days (1993) there were lots Sabre's in the VYC team. Most of us would go down too Gippsland Yacht Club to do Country Sail to experience as much as we would with the VYC camps; I did three of them while in the VYC. In those days the more competive racing for juniors was done in Sabres and the young Laser sailors where some what outcast into another group. There was the sticky situation where Laser sailors could go to Sail Sydney and Sabre sailors couldn't, but we didn't care. The Laser Radial was in it's infancy and the 4.7 didn't exist.
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vyc team

Postby Wild One on Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:35 am

hi richard,

that's my club i sail at Gippsland lakes yacht club, we have 10 sabres sailing most weekends in the season. i know there where 3 guys that were in the team on sabres from down here before they got rid of the class out of the team, that would have been about 2002, 2003 sailing season was the last time our club had kids in the team. they sailed sabres so it has been about 3 years i think since sabres where in the team, if i'm wrong someone tell me. i'm just guessing off the top of my head.
Good sailing to all,
Ben
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Postby A Trace of Blue - 1666 on Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:02 am

Hi all, Just love this topic.

The best example I can give to explain the situation is this. Sailing is becoming like a Union controlled worksite with Yachting Australia Like a controlling Union that also has a finger in the ownership of the worksite. You are an owner sailer in an independent class (not being an International or Olympic Class which is akin to being like a company sailer employed to sail a Union/Company owned boat). YA happily takes your union fees, so they can impose their rules on you, but as you are not a company sailor, they will not do anything to support you when you need help, and will only provide events and training for their employee members.

This is not just a problem for the sabres, but affects all non-olympic / non-International classes around Australia. There are quite a few thousand of us when you look at the big picture.

Has anyone tried to put in an insurance claim under their Yachting Australia cover? I have only heard of headaches from a few people who have tried. YA seem to want nothing to do with you.

YA and the State Yachting bodies will do as they wish, and as YA dictates the direction to the State Bodies, nothing will change while YA has tunnel vision on producing Olympic and World Champions.

The solution to the problem is simple, but it must be a 'one in - all in' ball game to work. All Non-Olympic / Non-International Class Association need to get together, form a new National and possibly State Sailing bodies to support these classes, pull their funding from YA and the state bodies, run their own activities and arrange their own insurance coverage that will actually give us something. Until it happens, and their hip pocket is stung, YA will not even bother to listen to what we have to say.
Peter Wilcox
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God Still Sails a Payne-Mortlock Sailing Canoe!
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