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National Championships

Postby swearly on Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:59 am

After a week to recover I thought I would put down my thoughts of the Adelaide series. The big contraversy before the series was gate starts. from a ersonal point of view I did not mind them. MOst boats got reasonable starts and little grumbling was heard on the beach. It did take an advantage away from some of our better sailors and it did force a commitment to the side of the course for the first work but overall not bad. I would have liked the courced set further out to sea to remove some of the local conditions that effected the course but this is just a small gripe. It was a very light series and the best sailor in that those conditions I believed won. The race comittee on the hole did not do to bad a job with only a couple of complaints. I must point out that although the second windy race was held within the rules as per the rule book, the actions of the race committee did not encourage sailors to act safely and I for one and I ecxpect many others in the future will stay out. If we had stayed out the number of boats in the water would have been such that the race could never have been held as when we came in I counted at least 6 capsised boats and most by that stage were on the shore. The worry is that with such a lesson we will stay out and it may cause a major incident. Surely a message along the beach saying the race will be held would have stopped such a madness.
The organisation was on the hole good but with one major fault. 30 minute time limits will always cause boats to be recorded as DNF if conditions are anything but perfect. This will even happen with 45 min. I have sat on committees for the last VIctorian Nationals and made the same argument only to have it all on deaf ears and be told without it they cannot run back to back races. To then hear some of the same people complain about missing a race was to say the least interesting. We should be as a class encouraging those at the back of the fleet as one day they may be at the front. Without the tail enders our titles will be very small. The assumption that tail enders will take their time to finish if you give them more time is false. Secondly if the fleet is struggling to finish within an hour then I doubt you should be considering a second race.
I expect I will get some critism for these comments but that is what a forum is about. I certainly plan to be at the next nationals - and hopefully lighter and faster.
One interesting point as everyone keeps talking about how big the laser and laser radial nationals were. Take away the internationals and each fleet had only about 10 more australian sailors than the sabres in each fleet. When you consider the support and pust that the AYF and state bodies are putting into this class it does give you concerns about the future of sailing.

Keep sailing

Stephen Early
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Ideas for consideration - future Nationals

Postby Slow Hand on Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:20 am

G'day Steve,
You have had a few readers - but no replies - I offer my suggestions and reasoning, for consideration ....

Point 1
Refer to RRS Appendx L - Sailing Instructions Guide, Principle 1 .... that the SIs should include two tpes of statement: the intentions of the race committee and the obligations of competitors.

Application: the Sabre Association, can, by the contnt of the SIs, use them as guidance to a race committee, especially in matters that may be seen as required in supporting the class ethos, values etc.

Point 2
Refer RRS Appendix J - NoR and SIs, attention to J2.2 (suggestions for consideration for inclusion in SIs), in particular J2.2 (35) ... the minimum number of boats appearing in the starting area required for a race to be started".

Application: much of the discussion post Heat 4 was on 'the class wanting to ensure maximum involvement and participation of sailors at all lvels in events such as States and Nationals'. Inclusion of a SA statement basedon J2.2 (35), with a specified percentage of entries would circumvent re-ocurrence and provide a quantifiable and clear 'class view' on participation requirements to a race committee conducting eventson behalf of the association.

Point 3
Refer RS J2.1 (9) - NoR and SIs, required cotent. Noting that the scoring system may inclue eference to te class rules or other rules governing he event (which includes the SIs).

Refer (as an example) 125 Contitution 2008 Part III - Administration Australian Championship, para 42 "if the Australian Championships include back-to-back races there must be provision for more than one (1) dropped race, if five (5) or more races are sailed".

Application:
(1) The Constitution, or equivalent establishing document, can include guidance on any aspect of the conduct of National Championships - for automatic inclusion in SIs. Apart from the quote above, there is also mention re use of GPS etc, order of hosting, some host responsibilities.
(2) Where back-to-back raes occur, damage in the first race can often force a competitor to be a DNS for the second race. The flexibility to have two drops where back-to-back races occur (planned,or as a result of re-sails) would reduce the unplanned impact on many sailors, and make for an overall fairer sailing ompetition.

These idea provided for serious consideration

Sue
1415 "Winnie the Pooh"
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SAME OLD BRIGHTON FLUKY SEACLIFFE

Postby peter reid on Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:29 pm

well all i can say steve is im glad i did the masters games in october- we had wind in every race,of course a much smaller fleet - it just seems that brighton just cannot serve up the type of sailing that we heavier sabre sailors crave for- for some reason largs serves up exciting adrenalin pumping regattas whereas at brighton it is always the same sloppy windless choppy stuff for the twenty or so years i have been in sabres- i rekon it has got something to do with global warming because when i started in sabres i knew heaps of laser sailors who dreaded a regatta at holdfast bay just up the road because it was always so windy- i was sure that just because i was not there it would be a great regatta but after reading the reviews and looking at the windless photos for once i got it right
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Postby fitzwarryne on Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:52 pm

In response to Steve I would like to make a few comments having run numerous national championships; one with 300 plus dinghy starters. In a weekend national with 80 dinghies in several divisions we started 36 heats with people on the committee boat more exausted than the sailors!

It is a major consideration if the class management are trying primarily find a national champion or encourage the greatest number to participate. With the general decline in sailing usually the later takes precedent.

The Gate Start was introduced when there were problems in overcrowding, leading to a number of general recalls; eight at one European Championship each some 15 minutes apart. Under the old standard starting procedure over 10 minutes it was common for the line to be layed 15 minutes in advance not taking account of wind shifts. Another consequence was the introduction of the 'Black Flag' rule. Giving the line line port end bias is no solution. I am generally against gate starts as first beat options are limited and it is not necessary except in large fleets of high performance boats. With the modern starting procedure any good RO should be able to reasonably predict wind direction over 4 minutes to give a fair start line balancing bias on the line against the prefered course side. The ideal line is when it's best to start in the middle! On a minor point the best sailors are not at a disadvantage, the strategy is if you are better than the 'bunny' you go early, if slower go late.

Another solution is to spit the fleet, the top boats in each fleet coming together later for gold/silver/bronze fleet competition. Another approach is to time for the first 15 minutes then go up the course allocating positions to speed up race turn round.

Remember the event is for the benefit of the class and its competitors, thus the SI and RO decisions should take that into account. Sometimes the wind conditions are within the class limits but the sea conditions or lack of safety boats are more critical. This is particularily important if the championship is open sea and many competitors usually sail on lake/estuary conditions. One suggestion is a class committee to provide on the spot advice to the RO, this is within the RRS even if they are competing. I fully agree competitors should be advised at all times as to what is happening. While the old fashioned briefing is out unless in the SI, the RO can indicate their intentions at the competitors meetings or on the notice board.

The modern trend is for a large number of short races sailed back to back.

In most conditions you can run four races a day aiming at 30 minute winning time and one hour between starts. It is important to take account of the slower boats, for example at the Mirror nationals it took up to 40% longer for tail enders to complete the course. You have to balance between keeping the leading boats waiting and giving the slow boats time to recover. As Sue said this style of racing requires several drops as broken gear and capsizes are a problem. My preference is only have a time for the first race and the latest time for the last race, everything in between fexible using AP plus H or A.

To sum up, the class management should seek feed back from the nationals then decide on the format which members want and advise the next host club.
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Postby Richard Jackson 1660 on Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:27 am

WHO IS THE NEXT HOST????!!!!!
Richard Jackson
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www.bluemarine.com.au
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Postby Sabre on Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:54 am

Richard,

We expect to announce the venue later next week. Just need a couple of committee meetings (one on each side) to finalise.

Ashley Parkinson
SSAV
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SBYC?!

Postby Richard Jackson 1660 on Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:35 pm

Is it Safe at the Beach?
Richard Jackson
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www.bluemarine.com.au
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competition

Postby Slow Hand on Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:40 am

the 125s and Lasers have announced venues for the next two years
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Postby Andrew Graham on Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:12 pm

Well folks - we'll publish something more substantial on the site in coming days - but confirming that next summer's nationals will indeed be 'safe at the beach' as Richard put it. The nationals will be held at Safety Beach Sailing Club on Port Phillip Bay (Safety Beach is about an hour from Melbourne, on the Mornington Peninsula). We just got the OK from the club this morning.
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Postby swearly on Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:17 pm

Victorian Committee
I was looking forwards to sailing down at Paynesville but realise the problems you have had. I must admit in my humble opinion you have chosen one of the best places to sail on the bay. Fairly flat water and not huge tide as well as normally steady winds and limited local effects. Those that want a holiday can stay on the lovely Mornington Peninsula. I can even stay home and travel which means my plants will be better looked after. I expect it will be a great titles and I plan to be there.
Stephen Early
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help

Postby Slow Hand on Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:31 pm

Gents,

where is he closest caravan park?
forget the beach, is the chair safe?
will locals provide billeting?

the crush
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Postby Sabre on Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:54 pm

New year - and new image for one of our favourite posters ! Welcome .....crush ! Bad Girl Culture no less ! Is this the new team Chic ?

Lots of caravan parks - will post details shortly. Chairlift has shut unfortunately. Billets - good question.
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