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Boat Weighing at National Titles 2010/11

Postby GuestMember on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:14 pm

Was wondering if anyone has read the newsletter put up on the SA website in regards to the upcomng nationals.

It seems the SA National organising body is mandating the weighing of ALL competitors boats prior to racing.

I would have thought this would have needed to be decided at a National level and agreed to as a new requirement as opposed to be mandated at the state level.

I actually thought that the Sabres were a national body with decisions made accordingly via the AGM and agreed to/voted on by the relevant states.

Whats next, are we also going to re-measure all hulls to ensure they are A class before racing?

Besides wating a day of competitors holidays, exactly what beenefit does this achieve?

Interested in other peoples views.
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Postby GuestMember on Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:07 pm

Yes this is rather odd. Sail and foil stamps is the measurement deal for Sabre events...and indeed one of the selling points of the class. No wasted day dragging boats on and off dodgy scales and trying to find out what everyone else's boat weighs. Just turn up with an A class measument certificate and a recent stamp on your sail and foils and away you go. Fair enough checking sails, everyone has a new one each season so it's important to ensure that they have a measurement stamp. Ditto foils although renewed rather less frequently. Or perhaps we go completely the other way - weigh the boats before every race and the lightest one can be the rabbit for those silly gate starts??
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Postby locknload on Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:51 pm

That is correct, all boats will be weighed before the championships.

Hulls will be weighed on certified scales provided and verified by one of the regatta sponsors.

This has been considered after consultation with the national measurer who provided the guidance on what is included in the minimum weight. We have printed this advice on page 2 of the SA August newsletter and will be providing the same to competitors leading up to the championships.

Hull weight is one of the measurements that is rarely checked over the lifetime of a hull and has a crucial role to play in overall performance. For this reason we have included hull weight in the measurement process before the titles begin.

Greg Warner
President SSASA
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Postby GuestMember on Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:17 am

Will this be a confidential procedure or do all competitors get to see the weights? This has been a big issue in other classes where boats are weighed at events. I suppose then the Nat Measurer will need to be on site re-endorsing A Class certificates to reflect revised hull weights, someone else will be needed to officially adjust/remove corrector leads and re-weigh, and finally we will need counsellors to console those 90% of entrants for whom this process will simply be a reminder that their boats, not unlike themselves, are a tad heavier than ideal and would have preferred not to be told about it. Myself included!

You don't require guidance on what the minimum weight is, nor what is included within it. We have a set of measurement rules that sets out both quite clearly. Each and every boat issued with an A class certificate meets those minimum requirements.

Wake up folks - this isn't the Olympics. The whole idea behind having boat components pre-measured is to ensure the event is focussed on the sailing and socialising rather than overwhelmed by time consuming administrative processes. Further, it is very important to have the national association dictate policy on this kind of thing so state associations can't take it upon themselves to redefine that nature of the class and it's key regattas without due process.

Speaking of sponsors, have we spoken to Weight Watchers?
Last edited by GuestMember on Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby GuestMember on Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:28 am

If you'd read the SA August newsletter you would have seen that boat weighing only applies to interstate competitors so it won't take up that much time.

SA boats get weighed prior to the event and presumably if they are relatively new they can just show their measurement certificate. Not sure but maybe interstate boats can do the same.
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Weighing at nationals

Postby GuestMember on Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:15 pm

Just wondering - what is the origin of this - why suddenly come up with this requirement ? Just seems so unnecessary - like someone is trying to solve a problem that probably doesn't exist. And why come out with this before the states have voted on it.....
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not something i am looking forward to

Postby Slow Hand on Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:03 pm

after travelling 3700km to get to the event i sure as hell am not going to be looking forward to another hoop to jump thru!

this is my personal view and may not reflect that of QSSA
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Postby GuestMember on Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:13 am

What will the SI clause say? "Every competitor shall present their boat for weighing on Dec 27 or 28 to ensure compliance with class rules - except for boats registered with SSASA that will be deemed to comply". Love to see YA's response to that one.

One in all in. If interstate competitors have to blow off a vacation day with this arcane procedure, why not locals as well.
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Hull weighing

Postby GuestMember on Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:23 pm

So - SA boats will presumably get weighed maybe on the same day that they've been in the water. Interstate boats on the other hand might not have been sailed for a week or two, and will have dried off after a day or two of driving. Have to be half a kilo of difference in weight there alone. Sorry guys - if you're going to introduce this idea then all boats at the same time please. Better still - kill the idea !
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Results of the National Association vote ?

Postby GuestMember on Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:44 pm

Do we know when we find out the result of the motion regarding this that was voted on by all the states ? And what happens if it's voted out - does the NOR get changed, or will the hull weighing just automatically not apply ??
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Postby GuestMember on Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:13 pm

There is a simple solution for this problem. If only those who have had to travel hundreds if not thousands of kilometers to get there and spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on accomodation there is one solution. At the end of each race request that the top SA boats that have not been weighed be weighed by lodging a protest. The end result is they will have to strip their boats, dry out any water and then re-rig before the following days racing. If a protest or entry against 1 interstate boat who declines to be measured is refused then the can of worms opens. Just read the Notice of Race - Boats must be weighed at registration so all SA boats must be weighed also. What a load of rubbish.
Sorry to log in as a guest but cannot remember my logon details.
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Postby CDance on Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:57 pm

Wow. I've been away form the discussion list for a while. Nice to see a bit of "action"! I should take the opportunity to start in a few other contentious topics.

A number of good points here, however I'm disappointed to see a lot of anonymous negative posts. Have the balls to put your name on the post! It will carry much more weight (no pun intended) :-)

Unfortunately I don't see many people from the SA organization committee in here sticking up for their decision, so I'll post my thoughts in response to comments:


And what happens if it's voted out - does the NOR get changed, or will the hull weighing just automatically not apply ??


It is my understanding that the States vote overwhelmingly against weighting boats, however it should be made clear that this is only a "guide". The race organizer always has the right to measure any aspect of any boat at any time. It's part of the RRS. Weighing boats at Nationals is something that's quite common in other classes. As pointed out by locknload, weight is easy to measure and has a large potential effect on performance and hence I can see valid reasons why the SA organizing committee may have made this decision.

Besides wating a day of competitors holidays, exactly what beenefit does this achieve?


That's probably going a bit far. Boat weighing will only add a few extra minutes to the set of steps we all need to take at registration. Don't forget the class already has its strange and annoying measurement peculiarities. Why do we need to have our foils measures every year? I know they spend a lot of time in the water but my centerboard has never sprouted roots and grown. Measuring foils (that have already been measured) every year IMHO is just as strange and time consuming. At least weighting boats is quick as easy. Measuring a set of foils correctly is not.... taper checks over all edges, fiddly radius measurements, thickness checks over the whole surface... I know it's hard because my foils don't measure (radius problem) and they have pass nationals measurement checks without question three years running! Every year I shake my head and wonder why we bother. At least it's pretty hard to stuff up reading a number off a set of scales :-) (Oh. BTW I'll make sure it's fixed for this year :-) )

Will this be a confidential procedure or do all competitors get to see the weights?


I'm sure the SA organizing committee has considered this. The Sabre class is different from most. There is a large percentage, if not a majority of amateur-built wooden boats, many of which will be overweight. It would not be much fun to rub this fact into sailor's faces - negative feedback, resale problems, etc. I've competed at a number of sailing events with complex pre-measurement and weighting is usually confidential and not recorded. You simply get a tick (green light) and move onto the next station.


SA boats get weighed prior to the event


I've heard a bit of discussion on this one around the traps (in between talk about the moon landing, Roswell and 9/11). I'm sure this is just a pragmatic move by the SA organizing committee to cut down work on the day (however I agree it's probably not a very well thought out move from a PR perspective). Let's have a bit of faith.


All in all I think we should see the positive side. It takes a lot of hard work and energy to organize the Nationals for one of Australia's largest classes. If the SA committee has the energy to tackle low-priority tasks like this, then I'm excited to see what they have in store for us in other areas. The measurement day can be a pain but it also can be fun. It's a great way of forcing everyone to spend a day catching up with all the sailors they haven't seen for a year - measurement in between a beer at the bar. That's what Sabre sailing is about.


Chris
Espresso 1778

[edit: someone PM'ed me and asked if this post means I support weight measurement at the nationals. The answer is no. I'm for even less measurement! My point is this issue is not a big deal and I'm putting it into perspective.]
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Postby locknload on Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:17 pm

In light of the recent vote at the special general meeting, we've decided that we won't be weighing boats during the measurement and registration days at the championships this year.

We've updated the South Australian page to reflect this decision.

We were never looking to identify and publish the weight of each boat, it was simply a step during the registration process that would occur concurrently with foils and sails.

We'll provide a facility if you want to weigh your boat and it will be completely voluntary.

Greg Warner
President SSASA
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Weighing boats

Postby goanna on Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:31 am

Great news about not having to weigh boats, one less hurdle to jump after a long trip for interstate travellers. Thank you SA I'm sure your decision will be most welcomed by the majority of competitiors.

Go-anna 1701
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