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Why Cleveland ???

Postby Guest on Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:55 pm

I wonder if the Qld Association might be able to help out us Discussion Board readers by letting us know the key attractions that have caused them to choose Cleveland Yacht Club as a venue for next year's national championships ?

Cleveland is obviously not well known to non-Brisbane people, and doesn't on the surface have the same sort of 'pulling power' that somewhere say on the Sunshine Coast or Gold Coast would have. It's a long way to tow a boat, and presumably some people will be thinking things like 'no beach - what do the rest of the family do' or 'not much of a club-house'.

Why Clevland?

Postby shane Navin on Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:19 pm

As a past organiser of 2 National Titles in Vic and 3 in NSW and attendee of 12 or so National Titles in 16 years of Sabre Sailing let me say that firstly I am sympathetic to your question on Clevland as the next National Venue.
However the resources required to run an event need to be available.
ie. Personnel, rescue boats, facilities etc, etc., and it helps if the Club already hosts the Sabre Class.
It is too late to change the next venue now , but I think you have touched on a significate future challenge for the Sabre Class to hold Titles outside of Vic where many excellent alternate venues are available.
The same venues in SA, Tas and Qld every 5 years is somewhat lacking in optimising the variety factor and is why the last 3 in NSW have all been at different clubs (Speers Point, Toukley and Eden). However,not all those events scored 10 out of 10 and none of those clubs sail Sabres, so there is that added complexity.
In the states with smaller Sabre support it is usually the same band of loyal organisers each time their turn comes around, and understandably we end up at the same host club.

As a discussion point should consideration be given to a truely National Committee to run annual National Titles and that includes determing the venue, with the host State operating as a logistical support and that a variety of venues be sought voted on and agreed by all Sabre Sailors well in advance of the event.

Some may say that this sort of happens at the AGM, but in truth the 5 year rotation applys, unless a state declines their turn, and the venue is left up to the State to decide.

As I said, no disrespect to Clevland, as I know it is an available resources issue, but there were similar mutterings prior to Lindesfarne this year. I do understand where the Guests comment is coming from.

Is this a discussion worth having ?

Shane Navin
"Poetic Justice"
shane Navin
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:21 pm


Postby Volunteer on Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:41 pm

Volunteers quickly withdraw their time and commitment when their best effort is criticised or undervalued.

The purpose of the annual National Championship needs to be at the forefront of effort associated with organisation of the event.

Are race management capability of the host club and potential of the venue to be a fair test of sailing expertise primary to organisation? I hope so.

Am I correct in assuming that organising a holiday for the participants is NOT within scope? Nor is catering for non-participant needs? Because if they are, then count me out.


Postby Guest on Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:29 pm

if u dont like it dont come

Postby swearly on Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:49 am

It seems to me that the selection of a National Venue is always critised by those not organising the event and not holding all the information. I have seen venues chosen for a number of reasons including support for peoples home clubs and this happens in many classes - not just Sabres. However I can not see a better option than those on the ground making the decision. For many venues we know what we will get before we get there and if you dont like it just dont come. Despite the rose coloured glasses many seem to be wearing about other classes and events I can honestly say in my list of poorly organised venues I count many national events organised for the olymic class sailors. One final point in this rambling - your chances of a good regatta are greaty limited if the club has little interest and is only doing it to get money for the club. That needs to be considered and does limit our venues.

Stephen Early
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:06 pm

Location of National Titles

Postby Phillip Johnson on Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:30 pm

I have been to many titles Interdominion,National and State in a variety of classes and have generally found that the venues were adequate but the event organisation was lacking. It seems at present that various race officials believe that their job is to make it as difficult as possible for all the competitors to get a fair go.
At the present time any criticism of race management gets met with the explanation that it is fair for every body and how dare you criticise the race officer because he is a volunteer and therefor a god or at least minor royalty.
This class sometime ago published a draft set of requirements for a national championship, sent it to all the state bodies for comment and got met by a stunning silence.
So the question for this class is simply this, do we want the National Championship to be a sailing event not to be missed or just an excuse for an interstate holiday each year.
On the subject of Cleveland I thought that the championship that they organised was one of the better ones and that their facilities were perfectly adequate for the Sabres.
If the above seems to indicate that I have bee in my bonnet you are right.

Phillip Johnson
Phillip Johnson

Why Cleveland ???

Postby Anne Mussett on Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:37 pm

Queensland is a very popular tourist destination at Christmas time, Southport was a venue that was put forward but due to the increased amount of water traffic, it was decided Cleveland would be more suitable. We are presently promoting the Sabres by having a "Travellers Series", Ballina was our first race, 11 boats attended, Southport next and then Cleveland, we are also looking at travelling to venues on the Sunshine Coast in the near future to gain interest in our class, hopefully when it is our turn to host the Titles again we will have more venues to choose from.
In the meantime I'm sure if you ask around you will find those who attended the titles at Cleveland last time enjoyed the traffic free and steady breeze waters even though most races were 20knots or more, as
for things to do for the non-sailing members of the family, Cleveland is
only 45 mins. drive from the Gold Coast and theme parks, Cleveland also has water taxis and vehicular ferries to take you across to Stradbroke Island, something to think about on your lay day perhaps, links to these will be added to the Qld section of this web site in due course. So Cleveland is it, we hope you will come and decide for yourself, I am sure you will enjoy the friendliness of our Club and the sailing on Moreton Bay.
Anne Mussett (Go-anna 1701)
Anne Mussett

Postby Andrew Bradshaw on Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:49 pm

Hi Anne

Unless I missed a year I believe you are holding the 29th National title. You have the 30th on your web page.

I believe you may be moving the dates of the nationals?
Is the event going to actually run from the 29th Dec 2006 to 5th Jan 2007?
Also are you going for afternoon sessions?

If you have any questions on what we did in Hobart, please feel free to contact me.


Andrew "Nanna" Bradshaw (just for Wayno and Team Chic)
SSAT - Secretary
Andrew Bradshaw

Postby Andrew G on Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:53 am

A very intersting topic indeed !

I find myself in agreement with many of the sentiments here, and it's really good to see Anne on-line here flying the flag too.

Having done the past 6 nationals - and enjoyed them all - I agree with Shane that there is merit in the idea that SA, Tas and Qld could be more adventurous with their host club selection. In saying that though, one would want to have obtained recent feedback from other classes as to how well particular clubs handled an event where the class was not 'one of their own'. I also believe that we sometimes get too hung up on choosing a 'cheap' club for nationals - without first wondering whether an extra $50 on the entry fee will actually deter people contemplating a $2000 holiday.

The nationals are our premiere event, and they are so much more than just the means of finding the national champion. We must have a good 300 or so actively racing Sabres around the country - and (IMHO) one of the key objectives of organising committees should be creating and marketing an event that makes as many of these people as possible want to come along. (So selection of a venue is important)

I think we do need to dust off the draft document that Phil refers to. Maybe having the management of the nationals by the national association would be too big a leap for the Sabres - but I think there is much to be said for better sharing of information and experience. 5 years is a long time between hosting these events, and too often it seems to be back to square one for the state committees.

Phil is also right in raising this issue of race management. I think we've had far too many examples of poor race management in recent years - I'd say 4 of the past 7 fall into this category. (yep - Blairgowrie included).
The race officers either don't have the necessary experience (as distinct from 'qualifications' they have gained) or they are completely unwilling to accept feedback before or during the regatta. It is imperative that all organising committees address this whole area at the time of agreeing a venue - and if need be bring in an 'outside' PRO and or starter.

So I guess I'm not a huge fan of the 'if you don't like the venue then don't come ' arguement; and even less of a fan of the 'I'm the race officer, and I'm a volunteer, and this is how we do things here'.

See y'all in Cleveland.
Andrew G

Postby fitzwarryne on Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:13 am

Andrew G wrote:A very intersting topic indeed !

Phil is also right in raising this issue of race management. I think we've had far too many examples of poor race management in recent years - I'd say 4 of the past 7 fall into this category. (yep - Blairgowrie included).
The race officers either don't have the necessary experience (as distinct from 'qualifications' they have gained) or they are completely unwilling to accept feedback before or during the regatta. It is imperative that all organising committees address this whole area at the time of agreeing a venue - and if need be bring in an 'outside' PRO and or starter. .

I recreationally sail a Sabre, and spend far more time being a race officer than competitive sailing. This season I am race officer for three nationals for international classes, plus several state championships. Thus, I think some experienced response is necessary.

1.The major problem in getting race managers in sailing is it's a sport you can enjoy in old age. The Sabre unfortunately significantly contributes to this! Thus, unlike most sports we do not have a large pool of middle aged ex-competitors willing to contribute as volunteers. This could be solved if no one older than 35 was allowed race a Sabre, but you could remain a club member if you were willing to serve frequently as a race officer.

2. Championships are held during holiday periods when few volunters are available due to familly commitments, plus good sailors are off at their own class championships.

3. The majority of sailors know the Part 2 rules but nothing about Parts 3,5 and 6. This is why top sailors rostered on for duty often make dreadful race officers.

4. The Sailing Instructions for a Nationals are usually totally different from those used in club racing, which really confuses some race officials used to local procedures.

5. I fully agree that some race officers hate criticisms and suggestions. The more experienced, the worse they are often set in their ways. The critical point frequently missed is that the championship is being run on behalf of the competitors, advice from them is essential. A briefing before and after a race with the class president/rep is good practice. An effective class association will liase with the race officer months before the event, going over sailing instructions, race locations in different winds etc.

My philosophy is a good event is when the best sailor wins, the rest enjoy themselves and the protest committee is underworked.

Yes, getting a good race officer is critical for success but they are in very short supply and the problem is getting worse. It's even rarer for a sailor to thank a race officer, the first person on the water and the last one off!
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:18 am
Location: St George, Bermuda

Awesome use of words...

Postby Richard Jackson 1660 on Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:14 pm

So whos the racing management team going too comprise of in these Nationals? Good pointers everyone! :roll:
Richard Jackson
Sabre 1660
Richard Jackson 1660
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 12:04 am
Location: Mornington, VIC

Postby peter reid on Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:50 pm

my philosophy is a good event when the wind blows harder than 15 knots-i can tolerate all the human errors eg toukley last race
peter reid
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 1:16 pm
Location: melbourne

Why Cleveland???

Postby GuestMember on Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:10 am

Dear Fellow Sabre Sailors,

It seems that there has been several comments questioning the ability of Cleveland to hold an excellent regatta. Will the race management be adequete? Will the clubhouse be comfortable? Will the family have something to keep themselves amused while I have a sensational sailing holiday? And other such trivial matters...

I have a deeper, darker concern about the choice of location. A worry that truly haunts my dreams and is slowly wearing me away, decaying my mind and turning me into a wreck of a man. I once again woke last night in a puddle of cold sweat and decided that I can not longer bear this burden alone. The time has come for me to speak up and share my feelings about the location.

We have been blessed over the last four years. Travelling around Australia, slurping the delights of Coopers from Adelaide to Cascade from Hobart. Sailors have had big happy smiles on the late nights out. Not anymore.

The biggest problem with Cleveland is that it is in Queensland. The biggest problem with Queensland is that they drink XXXX beer. How is that we go from the Mecca of beautiful beer, Tasmania, to a place where they call their drink "XXXX" because they can't spell "beer"??? It is a cruel world. We shall be like flies to wanton boys...

I have heard some terrible tales about the horror of XXXX. Stories about Sailors having their hair fall out, extra limbs growing and one particularily nasty story about a male sailor becoming pregnant due to the nasty XXXX poison.

In the past we have braced ourselves before clenching our teeth and heading into shitty-beer territory. We suffered the consequences. Enough is enough.

There were twenty Tasmanian sailors at last year's nationals. Rumour has it that no permanent Tasmanian residents will be making the trek to Queensland this year. I have heard stories that it is because of work commitments, family commitments, distance problems and the greatest excuse of all: "because I'm building a house" from our favourite Sabre Sailor with a walking frame, the Almighty Nanna.

These are only stories created not to offend the Queenslanders. The real problem is the beer, the Tassie boys want to ensure that they remain fertile.

I plead with the regatta organisers, please do something. Last time I woke up after a night on the XXXX, it felt like a rat slept in my mouth.

Please save us from this terrible fate.

A concerned sailor.
See you at Cleveland. :D
Posts: 334
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 2:14 pm


Postby Eliza C on Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:29 am

I'm a Queenslander and when you get here come and see me and I will introduce you to "Bundy". You'll have no need to drink beer again.


Shane C
Eliza C
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:04 am
Location: Bardon/Hollywell Brisbane

Queensland Beer

Postby Slow Hand on Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:03 am

Ok we understand your plight on the beer front, very important to you obviously so I am sure when you arrive at Cleveland you could perhaps mention this to the organisers, let them know what type you need ("hopefully" Queensland has this type of beer) and they will do what they can for you, failing that I suggest you take up Shane's offer on the "Bundy"

Anne Mussett (Go-anna 1701) :wink:
Slow Hand
Posts: 183
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 12:57 am
Location: ... somewhere ...

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